STR Wealth Roundtable: Mike Chang & Syed Lateef

Quick Summary

Jeremy, Syed, and Mike shares insights from a roundtable discussion at an STR conference, focusing on scaling, operational challenges, and leveraging personal branding in the short-term rental industry. It highlights the importance of networking, operational efficiency, and sharing knowledge to build successful STR businesses.

Key Points

• Conferences and meetups provide invaluable opportunities to learn from others' experiences, discover new strategies, and form partnerships. Engaging with mentors and peers can unlock "unknown unknowns," helping identify growth opportunities and solve challenges.
• Scaling requires assembling a reliable team with clear roles, such as revenue management, operations, and guest communication. Regularly evaluate and optimize team size to avoid inefficiencies and improve profitability.
• Emphasizing transparency fosters connections and builds trust among industry peers.
• Building a personal brand in the STR space helps establish credibility, attract opportunities, and facilitate easier networking. Social media presence can lead to connections and collaborations that drive business growth.

Full Transcript

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Jeremy: All right, today we have something very exciting. We are doing a collaboration episode—short-term rental pro podcast—alongside STR Like the best, we've got Mike Chang in the house and a special guest. Mike, I'll let you take it in and intro who we've got to my right.

Mike: All right, our special guest today is Syed Lateef, one of the OG Airbnb operators. We're going to be talking about our respective journeys today. Now we're actually in Nashville at the STR We conference, so it's cool the three of us can get together physically to do this.

Jeremy: Yeah, we are not on Zoom; we are live from the Hospitality FM podcast booth. I've had the pleasure of having both these guys on the podcast separately, Syed and Mike, and I've been on Mike's as well.

Mike: Yeah, Syed's been on mine as well. Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy: So we're putting it all together today.

Mike: No, it's great. Like, we're actually all in the same space and here with 3,000 other people at the STR Wolf conference, probably the biggest STR-specific conference here in the US. Seeing all these new investors trying to figure out the short-term rental game as it's changed now in 2024 has been really interesting. Have you guys heard any of the workshops so far?

Jeremy: Well, we started out with Sean Rakovich, who was standing 25 feet in front of us a moment ago.

Mike: Very nice suit, by the way.

Jeremy: Yeah, and I think one thing we were joking about that's cool is how we've all kind of learned from each other—or, like, you know, maybe I'll say I've learned from Michael, Michael's learned from Say, and not trying to create any hierarchy here. Maybe everybody's learned from Sean, being kind of like the OG short-term rental content guy.

But really, yeah, it's like a small world. You know, it's cool when you can see people being like, "Oh, this person said this thing, and I took it, used what they said, and it helped me in my business."

Mike: No, I think hearing people's strategy is always really important. Meeting people in person, you actually get a real conversation like, "Hey, what's really going on in your business?" Like, "Say, what's really going on in your business? Jeremy, what's really going on in your business?"

Jeremy: Unfiltered.

Mike: Right. You share more. I might not be able to copy-paste exactly what you guys are doing, but I'm like, "Oh, this concept actually makes sense. How does it make sense in my Philadelphia market versus in Chicago versus in the Carolinas?"

So, like, that's where I get a ton of value from these conferences. You can have a real face-to-face conversation. You go so far on Zoom, especially if you don't know the person—it's still fairly high-level. But when you meet someone in person, hey, this is a real person.

Jeremy: I would also add to that, beers, definitely help in terms of honesty about what's going on in your business. Open bars—thank you for hosting an open bar yesterday! That started off my night. If you're watching this, my eyebags...

Mike: It was too bad we couldn't get Syed. He was delayed on his Chicago flight.

Syed: No, my flight from Dubai was a little late, you know? So I landed in Chicago at O'Hare Airport.

Jeremy: Syed, man, what's good with you?

Syed: Yeah, for me, it's been awesome. I went to Ryan's party last night, and it was amazing to have everybody I see on Instagram in one room with, like, 30 people there. It was pretty amazing to be invited to something like that.

I got to meet them in person. For me, it's like I vibe off somebody's energy. I like hearing what they're doing, and if they're doing big things, it gets me motivated because I get in my competitive mindset. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm going to go back and do the same thing."

That's kind of what I get out of conferences. So, I'm looking forward to this one. I just got in, and I'm looking forward to meeting all these people I see on social media.

Mike: Well, if you came last night, we had 40 people there.

Syed: Oh, dang, you had a better party than we did!

Mike: No, but for me, it was like I brought people in my mentorship program there that I've been mentoring. I actually got to meet them in person, which is really cool. Meeting in person, introducing them to the broader network, right?

Because I think when you come to these things, especially if you don't know short-term rentals, it's pretty intimidating. You're like, "I don't know any of this terminology. I don't know these people." But we can go somewhere before, have beers, sit down, and humanize this image that's on social media.

It seems so far removed, but when you actually talk to them, it's like, "Hey, you know, Jeremy's not too different from me, Mike's not too different from me, Syed's not too different from me." Maybe they started a little bit before me, but I can get there too.

I think, to your point, it just gives people confidence that they can do this too, which, again, is where there's a lot of value in these physical interactions that help us all propel our businesses forward. These things are so valuable, especially when each spent, like, 800 bucks to come here.

Jeremy: Exactly. And I think one of the things you touched on earlier is, you know, a lot of times you're building your business, you're head down every day. And this is a real business—short-term rentals.

It's people entering your property. They book online through an app, but in reality, you're making real-world stuff happen. The more real-world stuff happens, the more situations you deal with that can be stressful.

So when you see stuff on social media, a lot of times folks have the tendency to paint the rosier picture of what's going on. You get a little discouraged, like, "Oh man, am I the only one who's feeling these stresses too? Is everything just smooth sailing for everyone?"

But then, when you talk to people, they're like, "Yo, I mean, I'm dealing with BS too." And you compare how you deal with it. That's something, again, that in person, you just get. You just do not get that on a 30-minute Zoom. Yeah, or on a 10-second Instagram.

Mike: Exactly. That's where we met—that's where my wife Liz and I met Syed. It was in 2016 at a meetup hosted by Mike McKay in New York. He flew over from Chicago, gave a talk. Liz was there, met him, and then we started connecting.

Syed had a really powerful piece of advice that we needed to think about to help us grow our Philadelphia business. And like, we know him, and I always talk about the million-dollar conversations. That was a million-dollar conversation, right? Like, I literally went there, and there's something—it's the thing.

It's like, I was reading this thing now actually about this quadrant of knowledge. The most valuable quadrant of knowledge is called the "unknown unknowns." Like, sometimes you know what you don't know, or you don't know... but it's the things that you don't know that you don't know that are the most important. It's like, "I didn't even think about that. I didn't even know about that." It just opens up your perspective. You're like, "Oh, I can do things this way."

And those are like—that's why I'm here. I want to figure out what are the unknown unknowns in my business, in my life, and what's going on in the world. That's when I can have those million-dollar conversations.

Jeremy: Yeah, and also, to add on to that, it's cool when some people are just so passionate about something in particular. It's something where you're like, "Oh, I've kind of..." and then you absorb it. I mean, Ryan Bakke, for example—I'll just give him a shout-out.

That guy is excited and happy about what he does for a living. He will talk about it all day nonstop. He'll jump right into it, and I'm like, "Damn, this guy's really, really passionate and excited about this."

And I'm like, "All right, maybe this is something that's more fun than I think it is." If he's this happy about it, this is something that warrants my energy as well.

Mike: What gets you excited? I know you have your BNBCalc business. It's a software business that is related to short-term rentals, but it's a different business. It's a software business. This is a real estate hospitality business. How do you juggle between the two?

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, so I started with a boat rental business. I've had the property management, buying new properties, the software business, and then, you know, I also try to—like we're doing right now—create social media content on this topic.

So yeah, it's a lot. It's like the biggest battle in my life. I would say my fiancée, she's also self-employed. She quit her job, and it really has been a team effort to get her to that point where she's pursuing her dreams and ambitions too.

So I would say I allocate time to helping her, and she allocates time to helping me. It's a constant battle of “sht”, pardon my language, "What do I allocate my time to on a daily basis? What do I do?" So yeah, that's the biggest struggle of my life,what warrants more time and energy. I don't have a perfect answer for that.

The software, I mean, the software's fun. That's a cool thing. I studied computer science in school. I used to build web applications for clients, so it was kind of full circle, going from short-term rentals and then the houses providing me the freedom to get back into that world without having to worry about raising $2 million of venture capital and worrying about all the runway and paying my own salary and stuff like that.

Being able to not stress about that allowed me to do something creative in a field that I'm passionate about. But yeah, it's its own level of a grind. A software business is so different from an Airbnb management business. That's been an adventure.

Mike: It's like marrying different passions, marrying passion with what you know. You know short-term rentals, you know that industry really well, but you have a passion for software and you marry the two together.

Jeremy: I mean and that’s cool. You build a product that you use, and I think that's definitely been one of the most rewarding parts of it. Like, I use this software. I know if we add X, Y, or Z feature, I will use it. I know people I work with will use it. You just have domain expertise in something.

Mike: I mean, real estate—there are a lot of real estate agents out there who've found your tool really helpful for generating business, especially in this difficult environment. It's cool that I use the product too.

So, Syed, you're the one here that—Jeremy and I both have like 30-some odd units.

Jeremy: Syed is the OG of the OG,

Mike: Syed has like 10 times what we have—like 300 units. What's it like running a 300-unit Airbnb arbitrage business?

Syed: So, like you said, I have…

Mike: Because I never see you on your phone. You never actually answer—I don't see you answering any guest messaging.

Jeremy: You never texted me back.

Mike: Do your guests never get locked out of their apartments?

Syed: So yes, I have all of that. I have 310 units in my market in Chicago. I've been doing it for seven years now, so it's been some time. But over the years, I created a big infrastructure and team for my business, and my margins are not like what other people have in their business.

You know, my margins are a lot less, maybe half of what you guys have, right? Because I have a lot of people helping me in my business, and I have an infrastructure of different teams. I have my operations team, I have my finance team, I have my revenue management team, I have my cleaning support team—I have a bunch of different teams.

And then, above and beyond that, I have leadership. I have people that everyone ends up reporting to. I use this system called EOS; it's from this book called Traction. That helps me scale my business and allows me to be outside of my business, only worrying about the big problems, you know?

So, you know, I like to say I made it where I'm working that two-hour work week, you know? Yeah, so I'm usually never on my phone.

Mike: I’m of the belief that hiring and sales are, like, when you're an entrepreneur in scale, the two hardest things. I struggle with hiring. I hired four people. I believe in hiring—I believe, at least at this stage of my business, in hiring fast and firing fast.

It's too hard to go through the entire process, like the interviews, on the job... and if it doesn't work out, you let them go, shake hands, and move on. We hired four people recently and let two go. One might be on their way out too. It’s not a good fit. How have you—talk a little about your organization. You have 300 units, right? How big is your US staff versus your overseas staff, and how do you organize it?

Syed: Sure. A couple of months ago, I had about 100 resources in my business, which consisted of 50 of them in the Philippines and 50 in the US. The 50 in the US are basically laborers like cleaners, runners, movers, and one general manager overseeing everything.

The team in the Philippines handles my backend work. It’s the brains of my business. Again, it had the different departments like marketing, operations, finance, revenue, and HR. It’s all built within that.

But last month, I had to take a reduction in my staff. As I mentioned to you guys in our group, I started comparing my business to other similar-sized businesses in my industry, and I realized that I had an overabundance of people in my business that I didn’t need.

I said, "Okay, maybe if I bring this down a little bit—reduce it by maybe 20%, 15%—let’s see what happens." I took a reduction in my staff, and then I asked, like, one or two weeks later, “How are things going in my business?”

And my team said things are going fine. So, it goes to show you I had a lot of wastage in my business. That’s the thing—because I’m not in the details like that, things get by you, you know? You don’t have control of certain things.

But now, I have to see, like, “Hey, can I take another reduction and see if business continues as usual?” That’s kind of the mindset that I have. I have the same concept as you. I overhire and then find out who the best players are and remove the ones that aren’t. That has allowed me to keep people who have been with me for about six or seven years now because I kept all the good ones.

Mike: Yeah, you’ve got the A-team. You, the Filipino engine...

Jeremy: Yeah, and just hearing them say that, see, this is an example of—you know, I have different businesses, and I’ve been hiring different people. Frankly, I’ve been reluctant to hire people. That’s kind of been my approach—cautiously hiring.

But now, based on this conversation, I’m like, “Oh, maybe there’s a different approach we should try—hire fast, fire fast.” So, thank you, guys. I’m going to let you know how that goes.

Mike: Yeah, no, it just—it takes practice. Honestly, I think it takes practice too. It’s hard to find a superstar on your first try, right? But I think once you kind of build the right team, it will compound itself. Are you having some technical issues?

Jeremy: Yeah, I tried to adjust this, and I ended up messing it all up, but I’m just going to hold it. So, bear with me.

Syed: Use those muscles you got from working out at Lifetime earlier!

Mike: Yeah, I mean, you seem really busy, but I see you in the gym all the time.

Jeremy: Hey, we’ve got to prioritize health. Health before wealth. Health leads to wealth—let’s just say that.

Syed: Fair enough, I agree.

Mike: We all play basketball here, who has the best three-point shot here, you think?

Jeremy: Out of the three of us in this booth right now?

Syed: I’ll never doubt my three-point shot, but I’ve seen his game on Instagram, and I’ve seen his stats for sure in a game. This guy’s next level. If he’s in a men’s league at this age and on top of the league, I give him mad props.

Mike: But he’s only made one three-pointer.

Syed: Is that really what stands, though?

Jeremy: I’m averaging well in that particular league. I’m in two leagues. One league is an NBA three-point line; I play the whole game, and I’m averaging 15 rebounds. So, I get tired. My legs are not...

Mike: Five total attempts, one made three point shot.

Jeremy: That’s per game. One per game—one made three-point shot per game.

Syed: Yeah, because when I saw it, I saw 50% field goal shooting. I was like, “Damn, that’s pretty good.”

Jeremy: 20% three point line. Hey, for me, my portfolio will not get as big as the guys I’m sitting with today, and, you know, that’s cool, but I will get more buckets.

Mike: You just sold—sorry, you just sold something too, right? Yeah, you just told me you just sold something. You just sold a property?

Jeremy: Yeah, it’s actually funny. Yesterday, at the open bar at the conference or the welcome party, which was sponsored by Savvy Realty, I wasn’t paying attention to my phone. I looked at it while I was at the open party and was like, “Oh, the transaction went through.” There were some appraisal issues, and the deal got... the 7-day grace period got kicked in.

So, I actually wasn’t paying attention, and I’m like, “Oh, I guess I just sponsored this welcome party.” You’re welcome, everybody.

Mike: Tyler owes you a drink, right?

Jeremy: Yeah, but yeah, I sold the property—for the first time ever doing that. That’s a completely new experience in itself. It’s kind of a liberating feeling. For that particular one, which we can get into if you’re curious about the why behind it, but yeah, it feels good.

Well, actually, I haven’t looked at my bank account yet. So, I don't know if there's money in there, but I suppose when I see that, it'll feel better.

Mike: We'll cover it on the next episode of STR Like the Best or if we ever do the live event. Yeah, Jim and I are trying to do more live events, so we should get that back on the calendar.

No, it was great. I think, uh, I'm glad that we're all here. This is a great job by Bill Faeth and Mike Strug for throwing this together. It is not easy to put together a 3,000-person conference in a real convention center here in Nashville.

So, shout out to Mike and Bill for having the vision to do this. It's a lot of money—they've got to rent this place out a year in advance…

Jeremy: And seven figures are definitely on the line. I'm sure they got it back, but initially, the first checks, you know...

Mike: Oh, I mean, we all know, right? That first check, that first investment—you're projected to do that, but projections versus actuals are two very, very different things.

Jeremy: That's risk, and that's business. Yeah, I guess, um... yeah. What are you guys excited for? You know, this is February 2024. What excites you guys?

Syed: So, for me, I've been in this mood that I need to be in Dubai. I fell in love when I went to Dubai a couple of weeks ago. The energy over there—people are ambitious, driven, and the social media game is kind of what I'm trying to expand on for my personal brand.

I feel like I've done a lot in the actual STR space, and I got to a point where I want to see other avenues of revenue. So, I think my move is Dubai, and I'm going to be going there more often.

Mike: You're going in March, right?

Syed: Sorry.

Mike: You're heading in a couple of weeks?

Mike: Yeah, I'm heading in a couple of weeks, and I'm looking to start some units over there. Okay, uh, you know, I do have some concerns about the market in terms of demand and supply because they've just been growing the supply like crazy in Dubai. Like, if you look at the…

Mike: What's the metric again?

Syed: If you look at AirDNA, two years ago they had 6,000 units, and then COVID happened and everything, and now they have 29,000 as of today. So, imagine, like, 4-5x growth. It’s like, can the demand keep up, or is this a bubble? But, you know, I...

Mike: You're going to go there and contribute to the bubble? Further inflate the bubble?

Syed: I am, or I’ll burst it.

Jeremy: He's going to apply economies of scale. He'll lower the cleaning costs, and he'll absorb the pain longer than others can.

Syed: So, my plan is not to scale there, but my plan is to have some skin in the game and make it a lifestyle thing where it motivates me to go there, visit. It’s good—it’s good energy there. I like it, you know.

Mike: It’s the fastest-growing area in the world, right? Yeah, all the Gulf money is there. Saudi Arabia is really trying to increase their profile there.

Jeremy: I'm assuming they have extreme seasonality because it gets hot, hot, hot. Yes, like right now is probably the high season.

Syed: Exactly. They're making all their money right now. Everyone’s happy, everyone’s motivated, but yeah, let’s see what happens when they go into the slow season. But it's the opposite of my Midwest market, right? I'm bleeding right now. I’m taking six-figure losses. Like, my January loss was $375,000—a $375,000 loss in one month. You know?

Jeremy: Granted, just to contextualize your July or...

Mike: What’s your highest month? What are you making in terms of cash flow, not revenue.

Syed: My cash flow in the summer months is, like, $400,000 a month of positive net income. Yeah, then it offsets the winter. So, you know, at the end of the day, I do good, right? I do good on an annual basis. I make my $1.2 to $1.3 million worth of net income…

Jeremy: Just about $100,000 a month of profit.

Syed: Yeah, about $100,000 a month.

Mike: And he works like two hours. I mean, I know this is, like, a marketing tagline, but I spent four days with Syed, and, like, this guy... you know, he’s on his phone.

Jeremy: He does have two phones, so I don’t know...

Syed: One’s for Instagram.

Jeremy: One iPhone and one Android.

Mike: No, but he really does—I mean, I’ve really seen you. You really are this. Your team runs the business, and that’s a true business owner, right? You don’t... you have people running the business, and you’re focused on growth.

Syed: Right, so I like to say that, yeah, my actual work is not a lot on a weekly basis, but the amount of stress that I have to manage is more than everybody else’s.

Mike: What’s the most annoying part? What’s the most stress—and I know the answer already—but what’s the most annoying, what’s the most stressful part of your business right now?

Syed: So, a couple of things. One is lawsuits. I’m going through a handful of them, you know, so that stress—getting the demand letters, dealing with depositions—that’s stressful as heck. Not knowing the outcome.

And number two is problems that guests can create that make my business crippled. Like, uh, I've had a, you know, recent sexual assault in one of my units.

Mike: Really?

Syed: Yeah, but that ended up being a domestic issue when I thought it was some stranger on the street. So, it was a huge change of my mindset. I'm like, "Oh my God, this is going to come down on us; it's going to be a big problem." But it was a domestic issue.

Sorry it happened to this person, but like, okay, you know... I always think from my perspective because I'm a business owner, and your mind really shifts. You're just like, "Okay, how am I going to get sued for this? How am I going to get sued for that?" It really takes a toll on you. You look at the world differently.

Jeremy: Well, that's... and that's what happens at your scale. Your operations are smooth, but yeah, real stuff is happening. When real-world stuff happens, you have to respond to it in a real-world way.

So, I mean, I respect the fact that you're honest. Again, you're cash flowing seven figures—you’re crazy, doing crazy amounts of revenue. I mean, literally the king of your market. I'm sure you look around and see almost every building you have properties in, which is insane.

But, you know, kind of the old cliché: Mo Money, Mo Problems. I respect being honest about them, though. I think you being honest allows people to suggest, "Oh, you should maybe talk to this person," or, "You know, I faced a similar problem before. This is how I dealt with it; this is who I talked to."

If you keep everything bundled up, I think that's when things start to explode, right?

Syed: Yeah, and even coming to this conference, I heard about your problems that you were having with yours, and I'm like, "Man, you have some similar problems that I was dealing with." So, it's interesting. You feel a connection with people, like, "Okay, I want to hear how you resolved it. What did you do?" It's always good to meet in person.

Mike: Yeah, yeah. There's no playbook in this business. There’s no degree for Airbnb, right? We’re literally building the playbook now—all of us are.

Jeremy: We’re still in inning one.

Mike: We’re still in inning one, right. I think this is where it’s helpful to share your journey and be transparent about the problems. If someone never tells you their problems, they’re not telling you the truth.

To be fair, this business is not easy. There are problems every single day. It's how you manage it. It’s how you build a system so the problems don’t reach you. That is the key to success in this business, among other things. But yeah, people can’t help you solve a problem if they’re not really in the game. They’re not really working on it.

I think that’s where you can really build trust by seeing how a person reacts. Like, "Hey, I have a question for you. Are you really thinking about how to help me, or are you just giving me a hand-waving response because you’re trying to get to the next person?" You can see how a person is.

I really liked the event yesterday. The people who came—like Jeremy, when you came, and I know you were on the flight, Syed—but you guys all really talked to the people there, like the people that were there, giving helpful advice. I really appreciate that. Everyone else who was there, like theKarwells... it was very genuine.

The feedback I got from everyone was like, "Oh wow, everyone’s really, really nice." Yeah, like, we're not going to be there. We don’t make revenue from them, but they still gave us their time. That speaks volumes about this industry.

Jeremy: Yeah, and I would say, at its core, this industry is a hospitality industry. If you're going to be good at it, you know, you’ve got to be. I appreciate Syed fixing my mic, which is just hospitality 101 right there.

This is a hospitality business. Those who do well at it... Oh, we got Sean out here! Sean, you want to do a cameo? You coming in for the cameo?

Come on, we made a slot for you!

All right, guys, you are in for an absolute treat right now. All right, no cameo? We got Sean Rakovich in! Oh, he’s coming back, he’s coming back, he’s coming back!

All right, you guys stay tuned. We’re 28 minutes in, but you are in for a treat. Sean is—if you guys don’t know Sean Rakovich—

What’s his thirty second pitch, Mike, You’re in.

Mike:He started in 2015. He runs a bunch of units in Dallas. The thing about Sean is, Sean actually started the YouTube game really early on, sharing a lot of his content. He was actually one of the guys who put out real content for a long time, consistently.

So, I don’t know the current state of his business, but what he talks about from the Airbnb side is real advice. I think that’s where... I don’t... there are only a handful of people on social media I respect. And he's one of the people, so I'm curious to... I'm excited to have a conversation with him.

Jeremy: Yeah, well, guys, I hope you enjoyed it. I guess, last question for you guys—I'll let Mike ask. Mike, what is the last question you normally ask your, uh, folks?

Mike: "What is the kindest thing that someone's done for you in your business to help it grow?"

Jeremy: Syed, you want to go first?

Syed: That's a tough question. I have to think of, uh, something like that.

Jeremy: He's got too many resources, so...

Syed: Um, I'll tell you, somebody that I have been vibing with—or some people I've been vibing with—is our group that we have with me, you, Hamza, and Victor. These are the players that I respect a lot for their opinion. One person that has been really kind to me has been Hamza.

He has motivated me a lot in my business because I see what he's doing, and it makes me want to do big things. Also, he convinced me and motivated me to make my own personal brand. Now that I'm doing that, I see the value of it. I'm going to these conferences, and I go into a room, and people want to come up to me and talk to me because they already feel like they know me…

Jeremy: Pre-indoctrinated.

Mike: It's huge. Huge.

Syed: It's just easier. You don't have to filter around and start the conversation. It just kind of flows to you now. So, Hamza really motivated me. He's got me into something that I really enjoy.

Mike: Nice. Jeremy?

Jeremy: Kindest thing? Well, I was actually joking because Mark Simpson from Boostly asked me that when we were just at the table. He organized the house we're staying at, and he actually asked that: "What's the kindest thing someone has done for you?"

And I... I was at the STR Nation conference, and I couldn't—uh, I had lunch, but there were no forks. Chris, who is actually the one who pretty much organized this entire conference, just left for 10 minutes and came back with a fork.

I was like, "That's the nicest thing anyone's ever done for my life!" He ran down the street and picked up a fork. I don't know if that was for my business, but I was happy about that. I'll give Chris a shout-out on that front.

Mike: That look—I mean, kindness can come in many forms. In a fork, or as a personal profile, or personal branding business. It's no—it's just, like, I think entrepreneurship is just a team sport. It comes down to it. You're never going to be successful by yourself.

That comes from hiring the right people, right? People that work for you. Then the people that don't work for you but have a stake in you because they care about you, and you care about them.

Ultimately, you know, if you want to go fast, you go alone. If you want to go far, you need a team. I believe that. I believe that 100%.

Jeremy: So, this is the last question I ask: What is your guys' biggest pro tip for 2024? Either in the short-term rental game or just life.

Mike: Build a personal branding business. Build a personal brand. It's business—build a personal brand. Similarly, um, Hamza—this was in Chicago, actually—he introduced me to Hamza and Derek. They're much younger than me. I wouldn’t have known who they were and probably wouldn’t have really taken their advice had it not been validated by Syed.

Jeremy: He’s the OG. He's the godfather. His word holds the most weight.

Mike: We all help each other. But building the social media... that’s how you and I met, right? Yeah, you reached out to me on TikTok.

Jeremy: I think Michael had, like, 200 followers at the time too.

Mike: Probably fewer than that.

Jeremy: I was one of the 200, I guess.

Mike: You and that 199 bots. But yeah, and I mean, like, coming to... now, coming to places where people recognize you, and they want you to... They want you to, uh, get out of the podcast booth because...

Jeremy: Yeah, well, we are being kicked out of the podcast booth.

Mike: We're being kicked out right now. I hope you all enjoyed the episode.

Jeremy: Stay tuned for the next time on the Short-Term Rent Pros Plus STR Like Pro Collaboration Podcast.