How Taylor Jones & Techvestor are Changing the STR Landscape

Quick Summary

Jeremy and Taylor discuss strategies for building and scaling a successful short-term rental (STR) business by creating standout properties and leveraging partnerships. It highlights the importance of unique property design, high-ROI amenities, and developing operational efficiency. It also provides insights into acquiring co-hosting businesses and the value of local expertise to drive profitability in competitive markets.

Key Points

• Use market analysis to identify core areas with high potential for growth and ROI, focusing on underserved or less competitive markets. Evaluate properties based on a price-to-rent ratio (17%-20% or higher) to ensure profitability.
• Tailor properties specifically to the preferences of target guest profiles (e.g., families, bachelorette groups) rather than personal tastes. Invest in unique amenities such as pickleball courts, mini-golf, or home theaters to attract bookings and increase ADR (average daily rate).
• Prioritize universal amenities like fire pits, game rooms, and hot tubs to drive bookings in diverse markets. Evaluate competitors' offerings to identify both must-have features and differentiators.
• Standardize processes through SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) and technology to ensure consistent quality at scale. Utilize professional photography and staging to convey emotion and maximize booking potential.
• Invest in high-end amenities and design upfront as a hedge against downturns, ensuring properties remain competitive in slower markets. Focus on density in selected markets to control expenses and streamline operations effectively.

Full Transcript

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Jeremy: We are live with the Short-Term Rental Pros Podcast, and today I am with the king of short-term rental Twitter himself, Mr. Jones, Taylor Jones, how are you doing, man? And, uh, yeah, tell us how you became the king of short-term rental Twitter.

Taylor: Well, thank you for the kind intro. I actually got started a couple of years ago, posting about me and my wife's personal journey in short-term rentals. We had a couple of cabins up in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and, to me, I just wanted to share the experience. I started posting every day, talking about our wins, our losses, and our struggles. When you show up every day, uh, some magic happens, and all of a sudden, the following started growing. It continued to build, and I just woke up and, you know, had tens of thousands of followers. It's become something I would have never expected two years ago.

Jeremy: Yeah, and you also—your day job is, um, you help run a short-term rental investment fund. So, yeah, tell us about that. I want to get into it because I'm actually talking to Sabrina later today, who is one of your colleagues at Techvestor, as well as Sief and another one, John Bianchi, who I've had on multiple times. He works at Techvestor too. This is a Short-Term Rental Pros Podcast, and the fact that I'm having four people from one company on really shows just how good you all are at this game. But what is Techvestor? What do you do for them? And, um, yeah, what’s your experience been like growing such an insanely massive portfolio?

Taylor: Yeah, so I run the acquisitions team. What we’re doing is constantly looking at properties to acquire. We're looking at the data, underwriting, sourcing—constantly trying to find the best products to buy in our core markets.

Jeremy: What is Techvestor, just at a high level, for those who don’t know?

Taylor: Yeah, so we’re a short-term rental investment fund. We allow people to passively invest with us. We pool that capital together, buy properties, renovate them, design them, furnish them, operate them, and then split the cash flows with those investors. It’s a great way to get passive income and exposure to the asset class. So, if you’re looking to diversify your portfolio but don’t want to do any of the work that comes with operating a short-term rental, our team does all the work. We pool the capital, buy the properties, renovate them, design them, furnish them, operate them, and ultimately split the cash flows with the investors.

From an investor standpoint, you get exposure to a diversified portfolio, and you don’t have to do any of the work—all while sitting back and collecting a quarterly dividend check. It makes it a truly passive experience while giving you exposure to a diversified portfolio of short-term rentals.

Jeremy: And how many have you got? Well, first of all, when did Techvestor get started, and how many properties have you acquired since then?

Taylor: Yeah, we started two years ago. We’ve acquired over 130 properties in the last two years and are continuing to scale over the next five to ten years. We’ll continue to build our portfolio, have more investors join us on this journey, and ultimately aim for a liquidation event—whether that’s via sale or refinance. That’s what we’re building towards.

Jeremy: And your role within Techvestor is, you said, the head of acquisitions?

Taylor: That is correct.

Jeremy: So that means, I mean, you’re the one calling agents, negotiating deals? Is that kind of what that entails?

Taylor: Yeah, no, certainly. It’s looking at all the core markets we want to be in. Right now, we’re deep-studying about 30 markets, and we’re currently active in nine. It involves looking at the inventory that comes online in those available markets, identifying the best assets to buy, talking to brokers, looking at the underwriting, assessing the data comps, and making sure it fits our buy box. If the return profile meets our standards and aligns with our investors’ expectations, we place an offer and buy the property.

Jeremy: Got it. Okay, so you’re checking the boxes. Essentially, you’ve got your criteria. And I’m just going to be honest—at this point, when I am setting up a property (and I’ve even posted this on my Instagram story), I look at y’all’s properties for inspiration. There was a period where John was like, “Oh, I looked at your properties for inspiration,” and I felt good about myself. But now, looking at your properties, I just feel insecure about all of mine at this point.

The ones I set up two or three years ago—I’m like, “Damn, if I knew what I know now, or if I just had your guys’ properties in mind when I was setting those up, they’d look very different.” They’re very, very impressive.

I think I saw someone’s tweet—I thought it was pretty funny—when interest rates were at their highest. Someone tweeted at you, “Hey, is there a correlation between interest rates and the number of amenities you have at your property?”

Because you just—like every square inch of the properties you guys set up now—are decked out with some sort of, like, something with listing appeal. So, I guess I know I'm not asking a specific question, but yeah, how do you—I mean, you guys are buying at a time when people are scared, you know? They're scared to buy, interest rates are high, short-term rentals are dead. How do you guys continually acquire and win in 2024?

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, what we're seeing is the markets we go into and the strategy that we're executing. We're out-designing and out-amenitizing the—you know—Uncle Bob common investor.

You know, we don't play in the luxury space. Um, it's not something we want to compete in. Um, it would be a completely different thesis for us. We want to go compete against middle-of-the-road Uncle Bob. And here's the thing: when those people are designing or setting up their short-term rental, they're setting it up for themselves, which is a huge flaw.

Us? We're not staying in our properties, ever. It's specifically designed for our guest avatar. So, if we're in an area that's promoting to families, we're all in on amenitizing for families. If it's a group of women for a bachelorette outing, we're all in on setting it up for women. If it's a dude's outing, same thing. We're going to be setting it up exactly for them. When we nail that guest avatar—from a setup, design, and amenity standpoint—that's what people want to book.

They don't want to book, "Oh, my personal preference was white subway tile. It's my Airbnb, I come and use this once a year." Well, they set it up for themselves, not exactly for the guest avatar.

It also goes to show, too, when you talk about amenities, we're willing to spend that money upfront because we know there's an ROI. The most common owner is not going to necessarily spend that money. If we see the value in putting in a pickleball court in the backyard, we're going to put a pickleball court in. If we think we can convert the garage into a golf simulator—which we have done—we're going to do it. If we're going to add miniature golf, or a huge playground set, or cornhole, bocce ball, soccer, whatever it might be, we're going to spend that money because we know the ROI is there.

And so, ultimately, when we're competing against middle-of-the-road investors who are setting this up for themselves as a second home, we're constantly winning. We're constantly driving more revenue and, ultimately, driving more cash flow for us and our investors.

Jeremy: Yeah, and I—I actually, uh, I was doing a, like, a live, uh, live training the other day, and I was going—I'm—I'm fully transparent. I operate my portfolio. I know we touched on a lot of, uh, folk who post content out there who aren't really in the weeds or don't actually operate their portfolio anymore. They kind of just, you know, talk about it or talk about the lifestyle aspect of things, where I'm very much, you know, in the weeds and trying to improve every day and make my operations from a management perspective better but also improve the setup.

And, uh, well, yeah, I was live, and I was talking about how in South Florida, you know, the Airbnb bust, whatever. I was giving the full transparent numbers on, like, my year-over-year data at different properties. And, like, most of my portfolio is, like—maybe we're down. Like, if we're down, it might be down, like, a little bit. Or there are some properties where I, you know, really improved them last year—maybe added a hot tub, um, maybe, like, kind of redesigned a little bit—and they're actually doing better.

But the one area where, like, my properties are, like, noticeably down is, like, probably the only area where I kind of compete with you. Uh, that, like, South Florida area, which actually—I feel—I actually initially was talking to SE about, like, that area, uh, and I think I introduced him to, like, a broker or something. And he—he told me he started making offers. So, I think I may have, like, self-sabotaged myself there. Uh, but I was going through, and I was like, yeah, just the properties in this area, like, they've just—they've been leveled up, you know.

The little—the mini putt-putt wasn't here before. And then I clicked on one. I was like, this one, for example. And I saw Sabrina's face on it. I was like, damn it.

Taylor: Yeah, it's something—it's something that's happened. And, you know, for us, when we go into a lot of these non-high-design, non-amenitized markets and bring the level that we bring, you instantly scale up what is considered table stakes to compete. Um, that's why we don't love markets that are already, like, highly cutthroat—the Joshua Trees, the Disney areas. Um, it's really hard to differentiate and win.

Now, yes, we're in Scottsdale, which you could also argue is in that same breath of high design and high competition, but we found a niche with those big resort-style backyards to win. It gives us that opportunity.

So, for us, we just love going to areas where the level of competition isn't at that peak, and we're going to come in and operate there and force everybody else to kind of step their game up to that level.

Jeremy: Yeah, in order for you guys to go somewhere, you need to be able to do enough properties. So, I've kind of—I'm not going to lie—I'm not expanding in that area anymore.

Uh, not going to say because you are, but there's just, like, the level has been—it's been taken to another level. Plus, home prices have boomed in South Florida, and honestly, the whole insurance situation—I don't know about—I think you live in Florida? Oh yeah, do you live in Florida?

Taylor: I do, I do.

Jeremy: We've had two consecutive years of insurance premium increases, and I can complain about Florida all day. But, that being said, I feel solace being in places where I know there's just not enough volume for you guys to come where it makes sense.

Uh, because for you guys to operate in a place, you're not just looking to do one, two, three properties. You need to be able to do 20, 30, 50 for it to make sense. Am I—do I—am I correct in that assumption?

Taylor: Yeah, no, I mean, it's funny. People reach out and they're like, "Man, like, I'm scared. If you guys are passing on the deal, then I shouldn't buy." I'm like, no, that's not necessarily the right choice. Because, yeah, to your point, if we can't get at least 10, 12, 15 in a short amount of time, it doesn't make sense. And we've passed on markets where there is, you know, teen-level returns, you know, very solid cash-on-cash opportunities.

But we can't get density. We could buy one, two, three, and then we'd be stuck. And for us, at the scale that we operate, it just makes sense to go after density. There's way more levers we can pull from an operation standpoint, from controlling expenses, from driving revenue, vendor relationships—any of these different opportunities. Scale matters for us.

And so, yeah, we are passing on a lot of markets that a common investor could go rip one, go rip two, and still get a great return. We're just never going to go into those markets because the inventory isn't there, the density isn't there, or whatever those factors might be.

Jeremy: So, you guys listening, you're safe. You're safe from Taylor coming into your neighborhood and raising the level of competition, you know, to a place that you don't want it to be. Uh, you don't have to—you don't have to add the pickleball court and the mini-putt.

But, uh, yeah, like, people always, I feel like, talk to me about, "Oh, what happens when the institutions come in? You know, like, what happens when, like, the Blackstones come in and the BlackRocks come into short-term rentals? Like, aren't you screwed?"

Well, and I say, honestly, the suits don't win at this game. Uh, and there's a variety of reasons. Actually, there was an article about—I think it was, like, TPG—who went into South Florida and started buying up homes. And then, I think it was an article talking about how they were going in, and, I think it was, like, five months after the fact, like, they had posted—it was a big, reputable source. I think it was, like—I think it was, like, The Wall Street Journal or something.

But then the next day, there was another article about how they were leaving. Uh, so, like—and what I say is, like, you guys, you didn’t come from, like, the suit background, you know? Because, like, someone who's, like, a major capital allocator who's done, you know, bought hundreds of millions of dollars of bonds, you know—buying the process of buying, like, $100, $200 million of bonds—is not a very intensive process.

Like, sure, you might have, like, an analyst, an associate, an MD who work on it and underwrite it, but that's really it. And then you find a broker and, whatever, you sign a paper, click a couple buttons to set it up.

A hundred—I mean, how—how would—if you were just to, like, give me a ballpark on, like, the total value of the houses in your portfolio at this point, what would it be?

Taylor: I mean, it's going to be north of $100 million. And, you know, you hit the nail on the coffin there with the institutions. Yeah, it's literally brick by brick. It is one single-family home at a time. And we've talked to a lot of those groups that you've mentioned, as well as a couple others, um, you know, that are in that same breath.

And they all have an interest in the space, but their preference would be to buy over build. And a lot of it is, you can't build it quick enough when you're talking about allocating $250 to $500 million—which is, like, really the minimum they're going to get out of bed for. You couldn't deploy that quick enough.

So, the opportunity we have as we build is, ultimately, once it gets in that size range for an exit, they're far more interested in just buying a stabilized portfolio. So, you know, as far as institutions entering this asset class, you could argue they're in Joshua Tree on the development side. You can argue they're in Disney on the development side, again, a slow, methodical process and very niche-specific.

But as far as going in and buying in, you know, Asheville, or Blue Ridge, or the Smokies, or, you know, Austin, Texas, or anything like that, it hasn't been proven. And from the conversations we've had, we just don't see it. It's just not something that they would allocate the capital towards. But from a buy-it standpoint, that's what gets them, you know, most excited.

Jeremy: Got it. Okay, so for the exit opportunity, having the size, the bigger you guys get, the better options there are from an exit perspective. But, all right, let's go away from the private equity, like, large asset manager hat and kind of think about, like, a normal investor.

I mean, I'll even think about, like, myself. Like, I've learned, like, from you guys and what you guys do. I mean, you guys are very data-driven. Uh, every amenity you add to the properties, like, there's a reason behind it. And I think, like, frankly, I haven’t really seen anybody else who does as many amenities to properties.

So, I guess I want to break into, like, how should somebody think about amenities, setting up their house, and, like, the ROI? And also, like, are there specific amenities that pretty much work everywhere? Like, someone has a property, a single-family home, in, like, a semi-urban environment. Uh, is there a catch-all amenity that's just going to work?

Taylor: Yeah, so, you know, as far as a catch-all amenity, I would say fire pits. Um, no doubt, everybody likes sitting around the fire—even if you're in Florida, where it is hot.

Where I actually don't have fire pits in my two Florida properties, I don't want to. I will tell you, we put them in every single property regardless of location, and there's just an ROI there. It's a gathering space, you know. Sales is the transfer of emotion, and what you're doing is you're convincing somebody to put their vacation dollars to use at your property.

Really, you're just trying to transfer that emotion. So, they see the photo of eight Adirondack chairs around the fire pit, and they can imagine their family sitting there, having s'mores, talking, drinking wine, whatever it might be. That's what gets them to book.

And, you know, as far as what amenity to add, you know, a simple process that I tell people—even at a one-off investor standpoint—is to go to the target market that you're considering. Pull up every listing on the first two pages of Airbnb. Do a flexible search for, you know, six months out on, like, a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, so high availability. Most people probably don't have that random Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday booked.

Open up every single listing and start writing down an amenities list. So, listing number one that showed up first has a hot tub, fire pit, and game room. Listing number two has a hot tub, game room, it's lakefront, it's a mountain view, it's walking distance to the main strip of bars—whatever it is. Build a commonalities list.

Once you get those first two pages, you're going to have, uh, right around 30 total listings—30 total amenities lists. Figure out what the commonalities start to look like. If 28 out of 30 have a hot tub, guess what? Minimum table stakes are: you need a hot tub. If only 2 out of 30 have a hot tub, that might be an opportunity for you to differentiate because it's like, "Hey, there's not a lot of people that have this."

And so, those are things I would look at: what's the bare minimum? You're going to find that out based on your competition because if they're on the first two pages, they're most likely top performers for that area. Once you build that commonalities list, you'll get a good idea of what's minimum table stakes that you must have. Then, start thinking of one or two things you can add to differentiate—things that those common ones don't have.

That would be the best place to start if I was, you know, just a one-off investor wanting to compete and add really great amenities to my property to win in my local market.

Jeremy: Got it. So, what are—for instance, the new property I'm doing, it's not a very competitive local market. I mean, at this point, I have a couple of properties there, so I'm making it, you know, kind of like, I don't want to say self-cannibalizing, but making it a more competitive market. What I'm doing is, I'm looking at just listings that I like in different markets and trying to take inspiration. Your guys' are definitely some of the ones I take inspiration from. Let's say Scottsdale, Arizona, I pull from there and then apply it to this market.

Is that something that's kind of like, for markets that don't have as many—I call it pros, the ones who don't have these pro properties, to pull from different areas where it is more competitive?

Taylor: No, studying similar markets is a great idea. Here's a real example: when we were investing in Blue Ridge, Georgia, we started looking at the Smokies, and movie theaters were in almost every other cabin. Like, 50% of cabins had a movie theater in the Smokies. We looked at Blue Ridge, and it was less than 1%.

And we were like, "Man, it's a popular cabin market. It's driving distance to a major metro, you know, right outside of Atlanta. Why is there no movie theaters?" So, we started putting movie theaters in all of our cabins, and, like, holy crap, it differentiated.

And that was an idea that we took from another existing market, which is just such an easy way to win. So, if you're in an urban market, go look at another similar urban market. Find the top performers, find inspiration, and go for it. If you're in a lake destination, look at another popular lake destination. If you're in a cabin market or a beach market—because what works in the Smokies kind of works in other markets that are cabin-related.

We've kind of seen more and more people start catching on, and now movie theaters are more and more common in Blue Ridge. It's a way to get ahead of everybody by just seeing what other markets are doing and then implementing that—being an early adopter for your local place.

Jeremy: Yeah, so the property on Wednesday—I'm flying down. I haven't actually been to the property since we closed on it. We are adding a movie theater. It is going to be the only movie theater. I don't think there is another one in the market.

Do you think a movie theater is one of those things that just, like, pretty universally works? Uh, let's just say it's a city environment, but the city—you know, it's a lot of people visiting their families who moved out of the city, or a lot of, like, soccer tournaments, like random sporting events. Would you say that—do you think a movie theater is kind of like a catch-all amenity?

Taylor: Yeah, I would say if you have a three-plus-bedroom and you're going to sleep 8 to 16, you know, plus guests, there's always going to need to be a space for kids that's separate from the adults. If the adults are sitting around the, you know, the living room couch, sipping cocktails, having fun, you don't want that to be the only sitting space because then they can't get away from the kids. They can't have that, you know, alone time.

And so, the kids can go into the theater, watch Disney+, Netflix, YouTube, whatever. So yeah, it's such a universal, you know, amenity. Am I putting it in a one- or two-bedroom that sleeps two, three, four, five, six people? Probably not. Um, you know, there, I think the ROI might not yield you what you want. But the cost to put one in, you know, when you have an 8-, 10-, 12-, 14-plus-person, um, you know, occupancy, is well worth it.

Jeremy: So, you would say game rooms and movie theaters are pretty universal as long as it's more than three bedrooms. If you had, like, a five-bedroom home—uh, let's say you have a five-bedroom home and a garage—would you turn that garage into a game room and then one of the rooms into a movie theater? Or, like, high-level, how would you go about thinking, "What should I do with this space?"

Taylor: I still think the game room over the movie theater, if you had a one-to-one, you know, like, "Hey, I can only add one of these." I would never take away a bedroom because heads in beds is still going to always be a winning strategy. But I would go for a game room. It's going to occupy people longer. It's going to be more, you know, universal.

At the end of the day with the movie theater, the group can only watch one movie. It's not like, you know, there's five different movies for the five different kids. But if, in the game room, you have a pool table, then you got shuffleboard, then you got arcades over here, and then you got board games, everybody can kind of do something different, or four different people can get in on the doubles, you know, billiards game.

So, it's always going to give you a better, you know, interactive experience and hospitality with the game room. But if you have the space for both, I would add both.

Jeremy: Got it. Okay, so, game room. Game room—we got the garage, guys. We're converting the garage to the game room, and then we're being creative with, uh, with the movie theater. So, this is relatively universal. Don't, um, it's like, you know, how it's like you don't want to give accounting advice before—or you say, "Not an accountant." This is totally dependent on your specific property situation.

However, this is probably some of the better advice that you'll be hearing relative to what there is out there. Uh, so, yeah, what is, like—just like, what are some pro tips you have in 2024 to succeed? Maybe it's a property you already own and you're trying to maximize it. Maybe you're looking to just get into the game. Like, what are—what are things that, like, people should be thoughtful of in order to, you know, be able to have success?

Taylor: We really look at every square foot of the property, inside and out. How can this generate additional revenue for me? And when you really think about it, it's leveraging those spaces. So, if you have a family room and a living room, the most common area I see is you put a sectional in the living room and a TV, and you put a sectional in the family room and a TV.

And the error there is, you should convert the family room into a pool table hangout game room space so you create that separation. You know, when you come into your backyard, what I see is a lot of open space, and that's typically not the way you want to do it. You want to fill the space because when people are looking at photos and they see so many different things that could occupy their family, their group of friends, their outing—they're going to pay a higher premium for it.

So, when you have, you know, blank yard space, you want to fill it with things like fire pits, hot tubs, cornhole, mini-putt, playgrounds—anything that can kind of fill the space. And there's a lot of, like, really great things that aren't that over the top.

Nothing I mentioned there is going to cost you, you know—even depending on the size of the miniature golf—you can get that done for as low as $4,000. And, obviously, that can run all the way up to $10,000 if you're doing it decked out. But, you know, playgrounds under $2,000. Fire pits, depending on the scale and how much stone, you know, that could be anywhere from $1,000 to $5,000, depending on, again, how decked out you go. Um, you know, a little cornhole area—we're talking a couple hundred bucks. You could do giant chess for $400 to $600, depending on the size and the quality.

So, none of these are going to be, like, breaking the bank. They're all going to be strong ROI perspectives. But when I see blank space just sitting there, that's not generating any revenue, and that's a huge opportunity that a lot of people don't capitalize on. They could have filled it with a revenue-generating amenity. So, leverage those spaces, whether it's inside or outside.

We touched on the garage; we touched on that secondary living room. Those are things you want to look at—what space can be converted or added to make more money.

Jeremy: I'm actually doing my first, uh, my first play structure. I have not done that one before. I guess—any tips or advice on the play structure? Like you said, I think it's, like, 2,000 bucks or something. Uh, how do we optimize that for success?

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, anybody with kids—they've been around to several different playgrounds. So, when they come to yours, does Mom and Dad look and think, "Oh, this thing's pretty dinky, and, you know, my kid's not going to like this," or is this of really good quality?

That's one of those where you probably don't get the cheapest one, but you get one of those mid-level options. You kind of nailed the price—that's where you're going to be in that, you know, couple-thousand-bucks range. Um, it's provided a great space for kids. It has a ton of options.

Jeremy: I may have cheaped out. I might have to do a return.

Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't want the one that just has a slide and two swings, and that's it. You know, we like adding the ones that have the bar, you know, the monkey bars, and the little climbing area, a net space, and two slides. Those extra little things are going to keep the kids occupied longer, which means the parents get a more relaxing experience.

That means they're more likely to write you a five-star review, which means they're more likely to come back if they ever visit the area. You just keep that flywheel going with your business because you did it right and didn’t go the cheap route that created a bad experience, a bad review, and then they don't come back.

Jeremy: Got it. Okay, so I cheaped out on my play structure. I should have had this call before I bought—or this podcast before I bought. Damn. All right, well, now I feel crappy. Uh, I guess—what else? What else should I feel bad about?

Well, one thing I think you guys do a really good job of—and I think you touched on this—is separating the spaces. Like, in your guys' backyards, you do a really good job of essentially using string, I would say, like using string lights and gravel to make it feel like everything—it’s just not a big grass backyard with everything sprawled out, you know, next to each other.

It's, "This space over here is encircled by string lights. This, uh, this, uh, fire pit is encircled by string lights. This cornhole area is in a little string light square." You guys really are artists with string lights in order to create the different areas. Is that—is there some sort of science or thought behind it? Am I, am I, am I on to something there?

Taylor: Yeah, you are definitely on there. It's an intentional use of space. You can tell when you show up to a property, even as a guest—like, if I'm staying as a personal Airbnb guest at somebody's property. If they just threw the amenities in the yard on the grass, you can tell.

But if it's intentional, with walkways, gravel, or how we'll enclose that area—so the cornhole area, it's not just two cornhole boards in the yard, but they're kind of enclosed with some string lights, or some structures, or some posts. Or, you know, whether it's the chess or the fire pit area, it's all intentional, and it creates that experience. It gives it a higher, you know, luxury feel so that you can charge a higher ADR.

So you're absolutely right as far as bang for the buck. And—and you said string lights multiple times, so we might as well get into it. I can't think of a more efficient use of my dollar than string lights. Depending on where you're at—at least locally here—they're typically about a dollar a foot. So, a 25-foot strand is typically running about 25 bucks.

I mean, obviously, hey, you can get the crazier light bulb ones or the cheaper ones. But if you're in that $25 to $50 range for a 25-foot area—which is just absolutely massive—I mean, it would be hard-pressed to spend over $300 in string lights to fill your entire yard. To me, it's the best thing. When you take those nighttime photos, those sunset photos, it sets the mood. To me, it's the lowest-hanging fruit you could add to your property.

And, you know, a common thing in mountain markets is you put them along the railing. So, if you have a two-tier deck, um, the mistake I see is people cheap out—they just run string lights on the bottom deck or the top. Put them on both. You know, it's going to look way better in your photos. Not everybody's going to only be on the top deck or only on the bottom deck.

Put them across all the railings, all the opportunities. Those are the things that are going to take your property and push it over the edge that the common investor just isn’t doing today.

Jeremy: Yeah, and that's actually one of the things. So, this offseason, I'm trying to refresh some of our properties. What I'm doing is I bought four hot tubs. I'm pretty much adding a hot tub to each lake house that doesn't already have one.

I feel like hot tubs used to be, like, u— I think there's, like, checklist amenities, like things that you need, and then there's, like, over-the-top amenities, like things that nobody in your market has. They're going to pick you over everybody else because you offer this one thing.

I feel like, in the offseason—like, I don't—this is my take, so if you have a different opinion, I'd love to hear it. But, like, if you're not in an extremely urban market, your winter is going to be screwed unless you have a hot tub, pretty much at this point.

Taylor: Yeah, with the cold weather, the thought is: how do you extend the season? You know, you can extend it by providing opportunities where they can still enjoy themselves in a different way. So, obviously, if it's cold outside, you can enjoy yourself with the hot tub. If you have an indoor pool or an indoor gathering space, you know, all those things matter. Especially when the weather does get colder, it helps you extend the season so that you can drive more revenue for your property than your competition.

Jeremy: Got it. So, a hot tub is one of those things. But what I'm also doing is adding string lights to pretty much every property. I—I—I usually would buy, like, the 50 feet of string lights and maybe do it over the fire pit or kind of, like, do it in one place. But no, no, no—that's not enough. We gotta—we gotta pimp out everything with string lights.

We need them on the top of the decks, we need them on the bottom of the decks, the walkways. You know, even if it's just grass, you know, put it in the grass just to, like, kind of make it, yeah, some intentionality. But yeah, trying to get my landscaper to get on board with the plan because I'm not actually doing any of this. Frankly, I'm remote.

But I gotta convince people, "Hey, we're putting up posts everywhere and doing a bunch of string lights." Not gonna lie, it might be a little bit difficult to really rally behind that if you don't see the why. Uh, but also, like, just gravel. You know, gravel is just—areas where the grass isn't growing or the grass kind of just looks crappy—just gravel it. You know, gravel is clean, and you don't really have to do much upkeep on it.

So, I see—I'm assuming that's the reason you guys do gravel a lot too—is that you don't have to pay a lawn mower to go back there. Am I wrong in that assumption?

Taylor: Yeah, you save on Opex. So, ultimately, yeah, it's like, "Hey, does it look aesthetically good?" But then also, does it help you keep your costs in line from an operational standpoint, from a cash flow standpoint?

You know, another thing you could point to is turf. You know, I mean, roughly, turf runs about $9 to $11 a foot. You know, all in—that’s labor, installation, etc. So, you know, it can be pricier. Especially if you have a 20 x 20 space, I mean, you're talking $4K to turf it. But again, it's low maintenance. Are you going to hold this for 10 years? Do you never want to deal with it?

It also will give you a higher-end look. Turf does give you a more classy look than grass. You don't risk it getting brown and getting a bad review. So, you know, we definitely integrate turf. It's not universal; it's not every property. But you can kind of tell when it's a good opportunity to turf this section.

And then, same thing—you can amenitize that turf area by putting giant chess, cornhole, Connect Four, etc. Now you've filled that space. You could do a little soccer area, put a soccer net up. People can kick, run, sit. You could put loungers there. There's so much flexibility with turf compared to grass that it's a really good opportunity to leverage.

And, you know, to us, in most cases, that $10 a foot—it averages out to be well worth putting it in your yard space.

Jeremy: Have a look into the permeability requirements.

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely going to vary by location. Obviously, hey, you know, the local rules, local municipalities. There’s definitely some nuance there. But whenever that opportunity presents itself, we typically find that it is worth it.

Jeremy: Yeah, I just had that issue. I don't want to keep ripping on Florida, but yeah, I learned about permeability rules and turf and whatnot. I'm like, "What—what is that? What's a permeability rule?" Like, what? But apparently, that's a thing. Uh, and turf is not permeable. Somehow, water doesn't get through. I guess it, like, stays on top, maybe? I don't know.

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of porous ones now, so it's pretty shocking. Um, you know, the technology has gotten way better from five years ago, ten years ago. But yeah, it's definitely become a better solution.

And I know, uh, new construction in, like, Phoenix, Arizona, you're required to put it in. You can't—you can't go grass anymore.

Jeremy: Oh, yeah?

Taylor: Yeah, and, you know, it's, uh—you know, the upkeep, the watering, etc. So, yeah, that's all new construction product. I think as of '22 or '23, in Phoenix and Scottsdale, it has to be turf or gravel. It's your only choice.

Jeremy: Got it, guys. So, we're looking at turf, gravel, all the amenities. If you guys go back through the podcast and just literally write down every single one of these amenities that Taylor spoke of today, the big chess, play structures, send me the list. Uh, take notes for me so that I can then implement these at my properties.

Uh, but yeah, what other, yeah, what is, like, yeah, what is your biggest, uh, what's your biggest pro tip? I like to ask everybody, what's your biggest pro tip, uh, for short-term rental investors?

And actually, I want to backtrack a little bit. How do you guys operate 125 properties and make sure that they're in good shape, and that, you know, the swing doesn't have, like, a piece of metal, or, you know, just some, that these amenities don't start withering?

Taylor: It's a lot of SOPs on the back end, a lot of tech. So, for us, we're constantly refining these, you know, standard operating procedures. And, you know, that's the cleaning and maintenance team that's going in and logging pictures.

So, for us, um, we're getting photos after every turnover, after every walkthrough if there's a gap. And we're going to have a maintenance tech go in and, you know, tighten all the screws, make sure the light bulbs are working. You know, the outdoor bowling does, in fact, have 10 pins because if one's missing, the guest is going to be like, "Hey, I can't play this activity correctly."

So, in order to keep tabs on that, we've standardized it with a lot of tech on the back end and getting photos of every space, every amenity. We're also providing a checklist for those cleaners to make sure, and the maintenance staff—"Hey, please make sure that there are 22 pieces for the chess, make sure that there are 10 pins for the bowling. You know, if it's ping pong, you need at least two paddles there, you know, so people can play together. The billiards needs 10—uh, or no, 15—it needs to fit the triangle, etc."

So, we haven't been as clean as we are today, and we'll still continue to get better. We are not perfect. And, you know, our checklist gets more in-depth; we continue to add new stuff to it. We're continuing to refine our process. But, you know, in order to maintain the quality at scale as we continue to grow, it is a ton of tech, a ton of standard operating procedures to make sure that we're accounting for everything.

And then our team is looking at it on the back end. Obviously, we're, you know, fully remote to these properties, but we're able to make sure everything's there. And if something's missing, we have a process in place to get it replenished in a timely manner.

Jeremy: You guys have Walmart.com and Amazon.com, uh, Prime, that's, uh, get it there, uh, same-day shipping or tomorrow. Okay, so that's interesting. And I think, uh, Sabrina's kind of the operations, that's kind of her, her…

Taylor: Yeah, certainly. You'll have a blast if you want to dive into some of the ops world. Uh, she can really have a lot of fun there. I, I tend to stay, uh, stay out of that. Not…not my cup of tea.

Jeremy: But yeah, let's say your world's more fun—picking the toys. And that's, that's admittedly the world I enjoy more. And then, you know, as the portfolio scales, it becomes—if you manage your own portfolio, it becomes a little bit—yeah, the operations, having someone local who will, like, go by and—because the issue is, like, what I've seen is, like, you can—you can give people the list and tell them to check stuff. But, like, there's going to be things that they just have to use their eyes for, you know? Like, just look around. Like, look around the place. Like, what's, like, notice things. Like, "Oh, there's a hole in the wall." Like, yeah, we need to, we need to open…

Taylor: We need to open our eyes so we can see this.

Jeremy: Yeah, exactly. And that's, I mean, finding the right team members in different locations is just, like, so, so crucial. Especially when you don't want to have to, like, go to each property, you know, once every two, three months, which, at scale, is logistically impossible, or just not even what you want to be doing with your time.

So, all right, everyone. You're in for a treat, uh, talking to Sabrina later. But Taylor is the king of Twitter. He shares tons of gems and information every day. How can folks find you if they want to learn from, uh, your knowledge and experiences?

Taylor: Yeah, certainly. Um, you know, post a lot of content on Twitter/X, uh, you know, @MrJonesSTRs. Um, started growing on LinkedIn as well—just, you know, Taylor Jones. And, uh, you know, who knows? Maybe I might come join the short-form video, uh, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube world here soon. So, uh, it's on the list to try to get more active on those. But for now, it's a lot of, you know, a lot of content, a lot of copywriting. So, you know, Twitter/X and LinkedIn, uh, is really where I'm at.

Jeremy: Got it. And then also, I'm going to backtrack a little bit here because I'm curious. So, interest rates are getting higher, but you guys keep buying. Like, what is, do you have, like, kind of a rough analysis or estimate on properties to, like, kind of what's your, like, quick pencil math on what makes a good short-term rental investment or not?

Taylor: Yeah, this one's always going to be, uh, ever-evolving. But we always look at what's the price-to-rent ratio. So, in essence, what's the rental revenue divided by the purchase price? And you're going to get a percentage.

And depending on where interest rates are at, you know, for us, our qualification is that's going to be anywhere from, like, 17%, all the way up to, like, hey, it needs to be north of 20. So, on a property that, you know, the purchase price is 500 grand, a 20% price-to-rent ratio would mean you generate 100 grand in revenue on it. So, 100 grand divided by 500 gives you 20%.

Because if you backdoor math out all your Opex—utilities, household supplies, property management, maintenance, upkeep, landscaping, etc. Is there enough margin left over? Well, I don't have to underwrite a, you know, 12% price-to-rent ratio. Meaning, if the property's 500 grand, it's going to gross 60. I don't need to underwrite that because if I go through and underwrite it, that deal is going to be sht.

You know, and for me, um, that's kind of the tough part. It's like, hey, we don't, you know, we know where that needs to be, and that's for us what we need to make sure we're hitting.

So, the envelope math, depending on where interest rates are, you know, high, low, indifferent, is going to be somewhere between that 17% to 20% price-to-rent ratio minimum that we're going to need to hit.

Jeremy: And how much, for let's say, a 500K house that's going to pull in 100K of revenue… How much would you anticipate spending on, like, amenitizing it?

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, us going over the top, you know, which is a hedge and a protectant, um, between all amenities, furniture, decor, you know, stocking the property, we're typically probably coming in, you know, right around that 15% to 20% mark. So, you know, somewhere in that, you know, 75K to 100K.

But again, that's going to include all the furnishings, all the décor, you know, we do tons of wallpaper, murals, the amenities, the renovations. So, that's going to be really our, like, out-the-offense, typically somewhere in that 15% to 20% range. You know, but again, we're doing everything necessary to make it a top performer, and that's really what it's going to take from a capital standpoint.

Jeremy: Got it. Okay, so that's 100K, but then that 100K is going to produce, you know, it's going to return on itself fairly, fairly quickly. Whereas, if you don't spend that money, then the drag on your, uh, your interest and mortgage and whatnot is high. So, it's worth spending up front in order to, uh, outperform in the long run. Is that kind of the way you guys look at it?

Taylor: Yeah. It's also going to give you a hedge in a downturn. So, you know, what I always say is, like, people still travel, you know? Um, maybe the bottom of the barrel, so, you know, people more budget-conscious, don't. But wealthy people still travel. They might change their habits. They're maybe not flying to, you know, Europe anymore.

So, when you're highly amenitized, you still get booked. Now, maybe instead of $500 a night, you're at $400 a night. But guess what? You still got booked. The bottom of the barrel sits vacant, and if you aren't amenitized or designed well, you run that risk in a recession.

For us, we're not as worried about a downturn. We know we're still going to continue to get booked. Yes, our insane ADRs might come down to, you know, quote-unquote "normal levels," but if it's affecting us, it's going to affect everybody. So, for us, we want to weather that downturn. We want to still generate a profit.

Yes, it might not be an insane profit, but when things pick up, we'll continue to boost our ADRs and continue to be in a good position to cash flow for us and our investors.

Jeremy: Yeah, well, I don't know how it works with the debt financing and stuff, but if we really do hit a big downturn, and your ADRs drop, I'm assuming that would also correspond with lower interest rates to refinance at. And then also, probably on the back end, a lot of people would leave. A lot of the Uncle Bobs would just exit.

And then once you hit the upswing again, you're going to be one of the only ones left sitting there, able to capture again those higher ADRs and having refinanced to a lower interest rate, uh, in this quote-unquote "worst-case scenario." So, in the worst-case scenario, it's not actually all that bad.

Uh, okay, cool. So, yeah, what is your—what is your, uh—I know I touched on this before, but last thing I like to always ask is: what is your biggest pro tip?

Taylor: Biggest pro tip is professional photography. I think it's the lowest-hanging fruit. When we're comping, when we're sourcing, when we're underwriting on a daily basis, I'm typically seeing anywhere from 50 to 100 different listings across the country. And it is absolutely crazy what photography does to a listing.

Even if you're not highly designed, even if you're not highly amenitized, professional photography is massive. The critical error people make is, I see the listings, and I'm like, "Man, is this home listed for sale? Like, is this on the MLS?" Because they got real estate photography.

There is a huge difference between short-term rental or Airbnb photography and real estate photography. It has to do with a lot of, like, how the rooms are captured—the wide lens, the narrow, etc. But you can just see, "This home looks like it's listed for sale," and that's kind of the vibe that a lot of listings give because they hired a real estate photographer who's taking photos as if the home was going to be listed on the MLS.

The problem is, that doesn't transfer emotion. I want a short-term rental photographer, an Airbnb photographer, who can get that transfer of emotion. Again, like we talked about, sales is just the transfer of emotion. I want those photos to give that family, you know, that emotional connection to be like, "Man, I can see ourselves in that garage that was converted to a game room. I can see ourselves in that living room. I can see ourselves enjoying time in the pool or the hot tub."

If you can't convey that emotion, you're not going to get booked. But, you know, photography is such a huge opportunity, and I think a lot of people don't invest in it. I'll tell you, frankly, we get a ton of properties reshot.

You know what ends up happening is, even our core photographers sometimes miss in our markets. And so, we're having to get a second photographer out there. Then you have to look and be like, "Okay, who shot the living room better, Photographer A or B? Let's take A's. Who did the kitchen better? Maybe it's B's."

And yeah, people might, you know, roll their eyes, be like, "Oh, well, you're spending $800 instead of $400 on photography." But if I'm going to go drive $8,000 more in revenue because I got way better photos, the cost of photography is negligible.

So, for us, investing in great photography is worth every penny. You know, we joked—we would pay $2,000 for photography if we guaranteed it would be perfect every time. It's worth that cost, but people just don't realize it. So that—that is my huge pro tip.

Jeremy: Yeah, and photographers who can Photoshop in the, uh, the fire in the fire pit and can do the little, yeah, the twilights, get the little, you know, create the different emotions you talked about of daytime versus nighttime.

Uh, I actually would love to hear your thoughts. I know we're kind of wrapping up here, but I talked to someone yesterday. So, I told you, like, a couple of the properties, or some of the properties—I set up two, three years ago, they're pretty blank canvases. White walls, like, pretty clean, pretty minimalist, pretty modern, but definitely not, like, the interiors don't, like, stand out.

You know, like, the exteriors, whether they're lake houses, mountain houses, they have, you know, the views or the water. So, like, obviously those stand out. But I'm trying to have someone go, they're actually from Florida. Uh, they potentially would drive up, start in my, like, Smoky Mountains properties, go towards, like, my central North Carolina properties, and end at, like, the lake houses. And just mural, mural, mural. Like, essentially just wall. Add color to this wall, add color to this wall, paint this wall. Mural, mural. And just go one house at a time and, like, do three walls in each house.

Do you think that makes sense? Do you think that's worth it?

Taylor: No, so big proponent of murals and/or wallpaper. I think wallpaper is making a massive comeback. We do bright, bold colors, especially in Florida, especially in Arizona. We've started even integrating it up in the Northeast and, you know, cabin markets as well.

White drywalls or people putting a frame up is really a thing of the past. And, you know, you can see, it's boring. It needs life. Creative colors, murals, wallpaper, we're all in on it.

Wallpaper is sneakily expensive. Um, but…

Jeremy: And to get someone to do the wallpaper is actually insanely expensive.

Taylor: Yeah, no, you're, you're absolutely right. Finding the right person who can put it up correctly, make sure it doesn't get, you know, ruined or fall down or have bubbles, um—yeah, it's definitely not easy. But because so few people do it, it's something that we continue to do because we see that there's so much opportunity for it.

Jeremy: I'm actually, one of the reasons I'm going down this weekend to look at this house is because I'm meeting with someone to do the wallpaper. And I was like, if I can actually get a wallpaper person, because, like, I've tried. Like, the last house I did, I bought a bunch of wallpaper, probably spent, yeah, $2,000 on wallpaper. And it was, like, the middle of peak season, and I tried putting it up on one wall. I was like, holy sht, this is, I don't know, this is not working.

All right, we gotta get this thing rented. Like, you know, we have big bookings that we're missing. I'm going to go deal with this wallpaper thing later. Put it in the owner's closet. But now I'm like, actually like, "Oh, we found someone. We found, like, we hit the lottery." So, I gotta go there and see this, this, uh, these people because they're like, they're like seven, they're like seven weeks booked out to do wallpaper.

Like, wallpaper people are apparently like neurosurgeons. Like, they're the most high-demand, uh, people in the world. I mean, you guys have the economies of scale, so I guess you guys have your plug. But, uh, this is, this is new.

So, yeah, I have a wallpaper person I'm trying to meet. And then I was talking to a, uh, muralist just to, like, between the two of them, just refresh as, like, high-ROI refresh as possible without, like, you know, just dealing with the walls and then worrying about the furniture later.

I guess—is that an approach that you recommend for kind of hosts in my situation?

Taylor: Absolutely. Add pops of color. Easiest way to stand out. Everybody else has boring white walls of some sort, or even just, you know, single-tone. Add murals, add wallpaper—easy way to differentiate, easy way to win.

Jeremy: And then, do you think timelessness, like, is that, like, some five years from now, it's like, "Damn, wallpaper, people did wallpaper. Damn, we gotta redo it again." Like, do you think?

Taylor: I think if it fits what you're going for in the house. Um, you know, if you're blending in a tropical feel, if it's pops of color all the way around, people are going to always want it.

Um, you know, kind of the good news is, when you're booking a vacation, you kind of want it to be different than what your house is. And so, if people are going with white and minimalist looks, they want that experience.

So, I don't—I don't think that's going to run out. You know, I don't see people doing bold pops of wallpaper in their primary residence. So, you know, if that was the case, then they would look at this and, like, "Man, we want something different. We want white minimalist. We want plain."

I—I just don't see it. I think more people are putting in the minimalist look in their primary house. So, having those bold pops of color is a great escape and a change of pace when they're on their two-day, three-day, four-day vacation.

Jeremy: It's funny as you say that, as I look at my fiancée putting a duck, mini duck, wallpaper in our bathroom, and, uh, she's wallpapering, uh, a lot of the apartment. So, some people—some people like the wallpaper. Some are not.

Taylor: Not everybody, though. So that's—that's the good news.

Jeremy: Exactly. Awesome. Well, Taylor, man, it's been an absolute pleasure. Finally, uh, I've seen a lot of your written stuff, so putting a voice to the face—or to the, to the, to the Mr. Jones—has been an absolute pleasure.

And then, yeah, for those, follow you on Twitter, LinkedIn. And then also give, uh, Mr. Jones, hey, we're going to hold him. Um, I've been, like, kind of, like, uh, trying to, a little bit of accountability with folk on LinkedIn posting, just because I think LinkedIn just brings, like, high-level good people. Uh, so I'm trying to just be consistent there.

But are, are you going to commit to being consistent with, uh, videos and stuff in short form?

Taylor: I am. I am. I'm actually taking a, uh, a guide course on how to get better. So, I needed to go through my four weeks of training, uh, so I can, you know, better understand. And, uh, yeah, I can—I can definitely commit to it for 2024.

Jeremy: Awesome. Well, I'm excited for that. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Taylor, for joining today. And everybody, stay tuned for the next episode of the Short-Term Rental Pros podcast.